Dorota: What is your role in this team? Were there top-down defined tasks when you accepted the invitation to take part in such a project, or does each member have complete freedom of action? Among the ambassadors are scientists, artists, environmentalists, architects. What is the division of roles? Does everyone have an idea, a plan, or does it emerge during the general collaboration at the conferences you attend?
Hubert: In the beginning, each of us submitted our ideological outline, an outline of how we understand the program and what we should contribute to it. Later there were online meetings - from March to June. At the first meeting we were divided into subgroups and assigned to different topics. In these subgroups we talked, had various discussions, and then all the conclusions were written down. Later, already outside of this division, there was a meeting where each of us was to discuss on three slides what the effects and values of the New European Bauhaus should be. Then there was a request from chairwoman Ursula von der Leyen to present and prepare a conceptual document - here, in addition to the discussions during the meetings, there was work on a document available online, we added various topics, and that's basically how a team of the most active people who coordinated all this was formed. Michela Magas, a Croatian living in Sweden, grew into a definite leader. A very large contribution was made by Orla Murphy from Ireland, Eszter Dávida from Hungary, Mária Beňačková Rišková from Slovakia, Sheela Patel from India or José Pedro Sousa from Portugal, as well as Anna Egberg from Olafur Elliason's studio, who was directed by him to support us in the work. There were those who were more involved and those who were less so. I, in order to maintain a serious commitment to the New European Bauhaus, resigned my employment at the National Institute of Architecture and Urbanism. At the same time, I am not the most committed person. Different people have different responsibilities. I think that as far as I am concerned I have a lot of involvement in terms of attending various conferences, meetings. There is certainly no strict division of who does what.
Dorota: What about the controversy growing around the topic of Europe's climate neutrality? The allegation is mainly that it will be at the expense of other continents. Moving production to countries outside of Europe, for the sake of "results" as to minimizing the carbon footprint.
Hubert: This is definitely a topic that has been raised, this cannot be the case. These solutions are to be worked out in such a way that they are also possible for other countries. India's Sheela Patel, for example, reiterates that, in fact, photovoltaics are a much better solution for them than traditional power generation. In general, electrifying slums through photovoltaics is the best way to provide them with electricity. Another example is places in the Amazon Forest, where electricity came to them through cell phone networks. Wanting to have customers there, they discovered that there was no electricity and people had no way to charge their phones. As a result, relay stations were rigged with photovoltaic batteries and equipped with battery charging points - not small powerbanks, but much larger batteries, like car batteries. This allows people to charge themselves and take them home for a few days. So they started charging not only phones, but refrigerators and all other appliances on electricity. As you can see, using such an energy source is possible.
Of course, there are examples of countries from the European Union importing goods from outside the Union and pretending that they have produced them without a carbon footprint, this needs to be tracked. China has issued a statement that it also wants to join.
This also raises the issue that photovoltaic panels will have to be recycled in 20, 30 years, and then what? Marcin Popkiewicz wrote a book "Energy Revolution. But what for?", and I invited him to join a panel discussion at the Poland the Great Project congress. He pointed out that for as much energy as one person consumes in Poland, you need to produce about 300 kg of photovoltaic panel. That's one-third the weight of a small car, and one-eighth the weight of an SUV. So by reducing the number of cars, for example through car-sharing solutions, we can more than compensate for the arrival of waste to be processed resulting from the replacement of photovoltaic panels.
Unfortunately, the pandemic has set us back a great deal on the subject of ecology. We choose courier deliveries, we drive cars more often, we have a lot more trash because everything is more packaged.
Dorota: It is a great honor and privilege to be an ambassador of the New European Bauhaus, especially since you were chosen and not there through your own application. What does such activity look like in practice? You fly to Brussels by plane, and this seems to contradict the idea of introducing carbon footprint restrictions, for example. It may be an "unsolvable" problem at this point, but is it being discussed at all?
Hubert: Indeed, the invitation to the first meeting near Brussels included information about reimbursement for airfare - that is, it was the default mode of transportation. In practice, Luther Quenum from France, Thiemo Heilbron from the Netherlands, and I from Poland - we came by trains. However, most of the meetings so far have been held online. Nevertheless, three or four meetings a year in Brussels are planned. Let's agree that people with a very heavy workload - such as Ursula von der Leyen - can hardly be expected not to use airplanes. And with that, there may already be another issue, which is the setting of the world as to the number, the scope of responsibilities of the people themselves. Isn't it currently the case that everyone has so many responsibilities that they need to move quickly? I myself like to travel by train. I have the impression that flying on airplanes in Poland is a bigger issue than in the West. Linked to that is also the impression that we, although we don't necessarily do it, are thinking more about limiting ourselves, and in some countries they are thinking about finding alternative fuels, for example. The question is to what extent will these be possible?
Dorota: And one last question. Perhaps a bit general, but what for you is recycling in construction? Is it a global opportunity affecting the construction culture?.... Recycling the old instead of building the new?
Hubert: Yes, even in these award-winning projects there were ideas of this type - for example, the concept of a house from Slovenia to be rebuilt. The premise is that the material from the parts of it that will be demolished is to be used for the elements that will be added. There is also an interesting aspect to recycling, which architect and activist Barbara Nawrocka from Krakow pointed out during one of the online meetings. There is too much trash in the construction industry. It looks like some element arrives at the construction site, a part to be assembled, which is specially protected, and this "packaging" is later thrown away. An important aspect, then, is to reuse such packaging while it is still on the construction site itself, or to use it to repackage more components. This is the same as in the case of the countless packages we know from everyday life.
Dorota: Thank you for the interview.
