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Being a female architect is more complicated than being a male architect - an interview with Anne Labroille

17 of January '25

Female architects in France (and elsewhere) still face the problem of inequality in the profession. Despite a significant increase in the number of female students in architecture schools, their situation does not really change: there are fewer of them in leading positions, they are less often offered leading projects and are rarely awarded in prestigious competitions. To talk about "women architects" is to question the existing order and even to ask about the vision of architecture itself. On why and with what tools this can and should be changed with Anne Labroille - architect and urbanist, lecturer, vice-president of the Union of Architects of the Île-de-France region and theParis center for architecture and urbanism La Maison de l "Architecture, and co-founder of the association for the equality of female architects MéMo (Mouvement pour l "Équité dans la Maîtrise d "Œuvre) - is interviewed by Dorota Bielawska.

Anne Labroille

Anne LABROILLE - Architect and urban planner, lecturer affiliated with the University of Paris Nanterre, vice-president of the Union of Architects of the Île-de-France region and the Paris center for architecture and urbanism La Maison de l "Architecture, co-founder of MéMo (Mouvement pour l "Équité dans laMaîtrise d "Œuvre), an association for equal rights for women architects, co-author of the book "Dynamiques de genre - La place des femmes en architecture, urbanisme et paysage" (Gender dynamics - The place of women in architecture, urbanism and landscape).


Dorota Bielawska
: What is architecture to you?

Anne Labroille: For me, architecture is the creation of spaces where people live. It is a spatial vision of how we live.


Dorota Bielawska: Please tell us about your inspirations. Maybe there are architects or female architects who inspire you in your work?

Anne Labroille: No, this is my problem, by the way. I have always asked myself this question. There are many architects whose work I admire, whose work I like, but I have never said to myself: I want to be like Tadao Andō! Architecture is a discipline I love and am passionate about, working in the service of people. Rather, it was geographers and sociologists who made me interested in architecture and inclusive urbanism.

Journées du Matrimoine - dzień dziedzictwa kobiet z udziałem stowarzyszenia MéMo

Journées du Matrimoine - women's heritage day featuring the MéMo association - the word "matrimoine" was coined from "patrimoine" (literally meaning what we inherit from our father) and refers to a mother

© MéMo


Dorota Bielawska: What do you mean?

Anne Labroille: I wanted to have a creative job and feel useful. For me, architecture was a link between these two aspects, an artistic expression, because I loved to tinker, to draw, and at the same time being an artist seemed a bit useless... My outlook has obviously changed since then - I was only nineteen when I thought like that. When architecture came up as a proposal, it seemed very interesting to me, because it is an occupation that is both creative and necessary.


Dorota Bielawska: Was it natural for you as a young woman to choose architecture as a field of study?

Anne Labroille: Of course, I didn't even ask myself this question. I often say, paraphrasing Simone de Beauvoir, that you are not born a woman architect, but you become one. It took me almost twenty-five years to realize that I am an architect. Now I'm working on the question of architecture and gender, and I find it passionate.

Misja ÉgaliCité-Boite à Outils (Przybornik Miasta Równości), eksperymentalna akcja na rzecz egalitarnego miasta poprowadzona przez Lucile Biarrotte, badaczkę urbanistyki i Anne Labroille, Angers, 2022

Mission ÉgaliCité-Boite à Outils (The Toolbox of the City of Equality), an experimental action for an egalitarian city led by Lucile Biarrotte, urban planning researcher, and Anne Labroille, Angers, 2022

© Anne Labroille


Dorota Bielawska: So today you refer to yourself as an "architect"?

Anne Labroille: I am an architect, that is, I was not constituted in the same way as male architects, I do not have the same examples, references, I had to invent my own path to be an architect. Being a female architect is more complicated than being a male architect. Defining yourself as a female architect is an affirmation, a political act.

ścieżka spacerowa Ceinturama zrealizowana przez kolektyw o tej samej nazwie w składzie: Bruit du Frigo, Wagon Landscaping (arch. krajobrazu), Anne Labroille i Laurent Becker (inżynier)

Ceinturama walking path realized by the collective of the same name consisting of Bruit du Frigo, Wagon Landscaping (landscape arch.), Anne Labroille and Laurent Becker (engineer)

© Wagon Landscaping


Dorota Bielawska: But you didn't think this way long after you graduated and when you were already working in the profession.

Anne Labroille: Actually, I understood a lot of things in the last seven years. Because no one asks us this question in our architectural studies and when we start working. It's obvious to the profession that you are an architect: the word "architect" is treated as neutral. But in reality it is not so, and it mainly means a man. We don't ask ourselves this question, because the very fact of asking it makes us occupy a certain position. I remember that when I was a student, when - really rarely - we talked about women architects, it was mainly in the context of style, colors and round shapes. This was unbearable for me, because when I say I'm a woman architect, I don't mean the issue of a particular architectural style, but the social perspective. It's obvious that a man can also create architecture that is colorful, while from under the hand of a female architect can come, for example, an angular building made of concrete.

jednym z założeń projektu Ceinturama było zachowanie unikalnego historycznego charakteru miejsca

One of the objectives of the Ceinturam project was to preserve the unique historical character of the site

© Bruit du Frigo


Dorota Bielawska: How did you manage to find your place in this profession?

Anne Labroille: My name is well-known. How did I do it? Of course, I don't think so entirely that I found the place. It was very difficult. For a long time I was director of projects at a large Parisian studio. I was in a beautiful gilded cage. At some point, what I was doing lost its meaning for me. I needed to change something. With the "mid-life crisis" I started my own company. And since I had been doing sizable projects so far, with big budgets, I naively thought that opening my own design office would be easy. I was convinced that it might be a little difficult at first, but I didn't suspect that it would be so complicated. I quickly realized that so far I was behind someone very famous, but no one knew me. All the projects I did were signed with the name of someone else. On top of that, there was the issue of networking - access to projects, very often reserved only for men. It ended up that my main job became designing the apartments of my female friends. I had previously done projects on a different scale, so I said to myself: suck it, Anne, you suck!

Ceinturama, to projekt, który powstał między innymi z potrzeby udostępnienia natury i zielonej przestrzeni mieszkańcom Paryża

Ceinturama, is a project that arose from, among other things, the need to make nature and green space available to the people of Paris

© Bruit du Frigo


Dorota Bielawska: But you didn't suck after all!

Anne Labroille: I wondered what kind of architect I wanted to be. I didn't want to be the kind of boss I had known so far, to have employees, someone under me, someone who obeys me. I wanted to work together in a more egalitarian system. But it was very difficult, because architectural offices don't work that way. That's why the question of my architect model is complicated for me. I also had a role model, a very, very strong one, of people who had developed more alternative practices, like Gabi Farage of Le Bruit du Frigo [an urban creative collective founded in Bordeaux in 1997 - editor's note]. Fortunately, I was not alone. One day, with a few friends, we organized a debate, we were all from large studios, we had established our own design offices, we all had great difficulties, the same ones. We wanted to have access to commissions, but work in a different way, on a more inclusive city. It turned out that we all had the same difficulty finding the model of architect we wanted to be.

do projektu Ceinturama w miejscu zamkniętej wraz z pojawieniem się paryskiego metra linii kolejowej Petite Ceinture zostali zaproszeni również okoliczni mieszkańcy

Local residents were also invited to join the Ceinturama project on the site of the Petite Ceinture railroad line, which was closed with the advent of the Paris Metro

© Bruit du Frigo


Dorota Bielawska: It is easier for a man who wants to become independent and open his own architecture firm?

Anne Labroille: Yes, it's easier, because it's normal, that's how it should be - although there are also men who ask themselves such questions, as I do. I'm doing research with scientists to understand why women - not all, but many - hide in the shadows, why they don't feel empowered like men in the architectural profession. This is because we have always been told: you have to take power into your own hands, an architect is someone who has to be strong, he is the project manager, he is the builder, the creator. The construction site is a typically male environment. I have observed that often women who have broken through in architecture are women who have adopted those codes reserved for men, they have also become very strong, masculine. I didn't want to turn into a man. It's a matter of social construction. When you were an architecture student and all the lecturers were men, you always studied projects completed by male architects; when you see in magazines, among award-winners, at conferences people who look like you, it's much easier. Otherwise it's hard to identify yourself... That's why at MéMo we try to valorize different models of the architect. What's interesting for me is that I don't have to fit into the canonical model of a builder.

Ceinturama składa się z serii małych wielofunkcyjnych konstrukcji odpowiadających na wielość potrzeb odbiorców i przyszłych możliwości wykorzystania przestrzeni

Ceinturama consists of a series of small multifunctional structures responding to the multiplicity of needs of the audience and future possibilities of space use

© Bruit du Frigo


Dorota Bielawska: When it comes to architects' access to some of the prizes, larger commissions, there is talk of a glass ceiling or even a concrete ceiling.

Anne Labroille: Everyone knows the expression about the glass ceiling. The words about the concrete ceiling are a joke by Brigitte Métry [French architect, worked with Jean Nouvel among others - editor's note], she used them, saying that for us, women architects, it's not even a glass ceiling, because through glass you can still see something, in the case of a concrete ceiling - nothing anymore. If you know you are empowered, you have your place, it's much easier!


Dorota Bielawska: So it's mainly a matter of education, or are there any objective contraindications to doing architectural work when you are a woman?

Anne Labroille: The way we are socially programmed is an obstacle. Besides, it's a job where you are more or less creative, but from a technical point of view there is no problem. The difficulty is to feel entitled to a profession in which we have never had a role model, a model that resembles us. And motherhood, yes, of course it's a problem, but why does parenthood only affect women? Often we see couples of architects who function very well in the profession and one day have children, and it's the woman who recedes into the shadows, I'm exaggerating a little, but not so much. In France, female architects in their 40s, with the birth of a second child, structurally disappear from the architectural scene.

linia Petite Ceinture stanowi niezwykle bogaty pod względem bioróżnorodności naturalny obszar w sercu Paryża i częściowo jest dostępna dla publiczności

The Petite Ceinture line is an extremely biodiversity-rich natural area in the heart of Paris and is partially open to the public

© Bruit du Frigo


Dorota Bielawska: How do you change this? Would it be, for example, to change the work model?

Anne Labroille: It is repeated that good architecture is created when one notoriously does "charette" ["charette culture" means falling asleep at night and working almost to exhaustion - editor's note]. In school we are taught that when we create, we have to suffer. For me it was difficult. I'm interested in creating, of course, but I'm much more creative when I'm comfortable in my skin and not in pain. This is an outdated vision of a creator. I was surprised when I returned to the university after many years as a lecturer and found the same way of doing things.

Cours Buissonnières - podwórko przy szkole podstawowej im. Jacques”a Préverta w Bordeaux powstało we współpracy z kolektywem Bruit du Frigo

Cours Buissonnières - the courtyard at the Jacques "Prévert Elementary School in Bordeaux was created in collaboration with the Bruit du Frigo collective

© TS-Mairie de Bordeaux


Dorota Bielawska: In the twenty-five years since you studied, however, something must have changed in the situation of women in architecture.

Anne Labroille: What has changed is the number of female architecture students. What is surprising, however, is that despite this really significant increase in the number of women in architecture schools, their situation is not changing. There is too much violence, violent language, too many hours and always this figure of the architect of the great creator, with no connection to everyday life. Today we add: too little education in sustainability. At a demonstration a year ago, students were saying exactly the same thing, and I said to myself that it was unbelievable: like twenty-five years ago. A different style is really not favored.

Cours Buissonnières został stworzony w myśl architektury inkluzywnej i ekologicznej; plac zabaw przedszkola im. Alphonse”a Dupeux w Bordeaux

Cours Buissonnières was created with inclusive and ecological architecture in mind; the playground of the Alphonse "Dupeux kindergarten in Bordeaux

© TS-Mairie de Bordeaux


Dorota Bielawska: So talking about women architects is questioning a certain status quo and asking about the vision of architecture itself?

Anne Labroille: Yes, but at the same time I would like to think that there are also men who do not recognize this image of the architect, the great builder. However, society still honors this very model.


Dorota Bielawska: Indeed, it seems quite unbelievable this "oldization" in architecture, while we need a whole team of people to carry out an architectural project.

Anne Labroille: And this is very brutal. Also for male architects. We need to work through this too, emphasizing that creating architecture is a collective activity. It still amazes me why we don't teach teamwork in architecture schools. We will value courage, the ability to take risks, but we will overlook people who know how to work with each other.

Cours Buissonnières, to gra słów, „buissonnières” przywołuje jednocześnie na myśl wagary (fr. école buisonnière) i dzikie zakrzewione miejsce;

Cours Buissonnières, it's a play on words, "buissonnières" evokes at the same time a truant (French: école buisonnière) and a wild bushy place; - the Jacques "Prévert school in Bordeaux

© TS-Mairie de Bordeaux


Dorota Bielawska: Dorte Mandrup caused an international sensation with her article in the online magazine Dezeen, saying: "I am not a woman architect. I am an architect." Can talking about gender in architecture be stigmatizing?

Anne Labroille: Yes, it is unfortunately stigmatizing. I myself in my political career at the Union of Architects Île-de-France hear: Anne, can you talk about something else? I recently met one of the ARVHA award winners and was pleased: "You've become a winner of the Women Architects Award!". "Ah, yes," she replied, "but I find it hard to be proud of her. This is proof that our profession is deeply sexist, because as soon as you show similar revindications, you get blacklisted. She realized that this award had a big impact on her career, that it made her more visible, so she had better contracts, but it was hard for her to accept the fact that she had won an award for women - because it was an award exclusively for women. We should just say to ourselves: we have a problem, and the award can help solve that problem.

Cité Audacieuse „trzecie miejsce” stworzone z myślą o kobietach, gdzie mieści się między innymi siedziba stowarzyszenia MéMo

Cité Audacieuse "third place" created with women in mind, where, among other things, the headquarters of the MéMo association is located

Photo: Anne Labroille


Dorota Bielawska: "Parity policy" is therefore necessary in your opinion?

Anne Labroille: Yes, parity policy, awards - these are simply tools that are very necessary. I hope that in thirty years they will be unnecessary. But there's still a lot ahead of us. Although things are moving in the right direction. Take, for example, the AJAP award, Les Albums des jeunes architectes et paysagistes, for young architects, urban planners and landscape designers. I use statistics, I count, because that's the only way to illustrate the situation. This prize has been awarded for about fifteen years. As a rule, among the awardees there were 20 to 30 percent women. Four years ago, the award [in the architecture category - editor's note] was given to only two women and more than twenty men. This is no longer acceptable. Thanks to the protests, there was a lot of publicity, there were newspaper articles - last year 45 percent of those on the podium were female architects.

Cité Audacieuse zostało odnowione przez Anne Labroille zgodnie z zasadami architektury inkluzywnej, próbującej odpowiedzieć na potrzeby użytkowników

Cité Audacieuse was renovated by Anne Labroille according to the principles of inclusive architecture, trying to respond to the needs of users

Photo: Anne Labroille


Dorota Bielawska: Great!

Anne Labroille: Another example: at La Maison de l "Architecture, an award is given to the best graduate. Paradoxically, the awards given to girls are usually many. But that's because there are more female students than male students. When they are still in school, more awards accrue to them, besides, they apply to this competition more often than to AJAP. So I tell the female students: in five years, apply for Albums. But it's complicated because you have to have completed projects, and women, knowing that they will have children, choose more often to work full-time, so they don't have their own realizations, and it's harder for them to apply for this award. Without this award, in turn, it will be more difficult for them to build a career. There are many such mechanisms, and we need to work on "tools": awards, press - and on women to give them confidence. Offers are already appearing that are moving in the direction that women's applications will be welcomed. I often say to young women: the future of architecture belongs to you, because soon we will stop building concrete towers. We will rebuild, we will repair, we will work on the city, and more often than not, women have the skills it takes to do that.

Cité Audacieuse, „Tiers-lieu” (ang. The Third Place), trzecie miejsce życia po domu i pracy w przerobionej starej szkole w centrum Paryża

Cité Audacieuse, "Tiers-lieu" (English: The Third Place), a third place to live after home and work in a converted old school in central Paris

Photo credit: Anne Labroille


Dorota Bielawska: There's a lot of talk today that cities are not made for women. Would you also design cities differently?

Anne Labroille: There is no single answer here. This is the subject of my work now, I support local authorities in creating inclusive cities. For me, it's still a question of the city of tomorrow, which will not be designed in such and such a color or a given form; what will be important each time is by whom and for whom this city was conceived.


Dorota Bielawska: Thank you for the interview.


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